Interviewed by: Maha Mamish | GFDA Member and Contributor
In this interview, we’re speaking with Chris Youssef, who spent 20 years working with NYC-based architectural & design firms such as Guenther 5 Architects and Perkins & Will before evolving into a materials specialist and sustainability consultant. Today he advises everyone from design firms to organizations developing certification standards in the world of materials and manufacturing. We sat with Chris to ask him, from his diverse perspective, where the state of material health is, how close we are to being able to fully design using regenerative sustainable materiality, and what barriers remain for us to tackle together.
5 Bank Street, London by Perkins & Will.Sustainability : On target for WELL Platinum & BREEAM Outstanding
GFDA
You have a super unique perspective in understanding both sides of this story, meaning the design process as well as the science. You and I have talked in the past about your observation that bridging the knowledge and process frameworks between the two sides is one of the biggest hurdles in creating real change. Could you elaborate on that a bit and talk about what or who is needed to build those bridges?
CHRIS
Well, it comes down to the different ways that each side thinks. Architects think in decisive terms. When designing an entryway or space connecting to the outdoors before selecting the floor, you are going to want to know if the floor meets the slip coefficient requirement. Yes or no? Precise, definitive. The scientific mind by contrast is not about definitive, but rather potentialities, e.g. “this might do this, or this could happen in X circumstance.” Architects have a hard time digesting those terminologies. On the other side, most material experts don’t comprehend how a project comes together from schematic design to construction documents. So, breakdowns occur because we don’t have the same education, the same vocabulary, or the same frameworks. Having practiced interior design for 20 years, I’m able to represent both voices. Generally speaking, it’s going to take new systems of understanding to translate between two very different approaches.
GFDA
I think one of the big hesitancies designers have working with new innovations in sustainable materials is:
Will this be reliable long term? Without the test of time, it can feel like a landmine, given they are ultimately responsible for anything that goes wrong in the clients’ eyes. What would you say in response to those who don’t know if, or how, they can trust new innovations when designing?
CHRIS
Yeah, that’s a really good question and one that comes up on nearly every project I ever worked on. In my experience, it’s not that
new technology materials aren’t tested. Manufacturers do rigorous testing. Instead, what often happens is that most architects, designers, and owners don’t know all the materials standards or when to know to communicate with the right teams about how installations are executed. For example, a lot of times we assume that it’s installed the same way as X. Few make a point of requiring certified installers in their specifications, but this can eliminate some problems.
The second issue is how it’s maintained. The information on how to maintain the product, like the floor, doesn’t always make it to the maintenance team. If there is a series of different types of resilient flooring, the maintenance team may not know how to clean the different flooring types and clean it all the same way. This could damage sustainable flooring, which in turn would put the blame on the product as a failure.
GFDA
How would you respond to a designer asking what’s the first place they can start to affect real impact through their process?
CHRIS
Well, it’s about setting the criteria. What is your sustainability concept? Sustainability is a very vague term. What is it that you’re trying to achieve? Because you need to be able to translate solutions by going back to what you are trying to do .Once you set up your goals and your design intentions, it becomes easier.
GFDA
On that same thread, what about product brands and interior designers creating product collections or custom work… any advice on starting to work with new materials?
CHRIS
My advice is not the same answer for manufacturers. I would say to manufacturers of products not to be afraid of your supply chains. Don’t be afraid! During the design phase of the product, get your data before you start production. Design products after choosing a materiality based on carbon footprint, toxicity, and life cycle—whatever the concerns are—versus looking into how to make it after the concept has been developed.
GFDA
I recently read about ornithologists discovering that bird flocks change direction mid-flight when the individual birds progressively start tilting their wings slightly until the 51% threshold is met. So at that exact moment more than half the group tilts in a new direction, the rest of the flock suddenly follows the suggested trajectory, which is such a beautiful metaphor for collective change. What do you think is needed to reach that collective tipping point within the design industry?
CHRIS
From the manufacturing standpoint, it just takes one person to start. Then another manufacture will say, “I have a similar product. I can do that, too.” Let’s look at what we can do to get up there.’ From there the ripple effect takes place. But then what must change is
the culture of manufacturers who are saying that a sustainable product is now a premium product, and then the price goes up. So, while you’ve just broken that sustainability barrier, all you’ve done was create a material that’s now rarely going to be used. We’re never gonna win that way, right? Keeping the cost within reason would create a triad of innovation, healthy competition, and longer-term thinking, in order to develop enough usable products most designers can wholly integrate.
GFDA
What resources would you point to for designers to keep up to date with the latest information and innovations out there?
CHRIS
As far as carbon, Carbon Leadership Forum out of Washington State is one worth mentioning. They hire an assortment of educated people, from scientists to architects, all on staff, and they’re a really smart group. I’m still doing research on ones related to Circular Thinking: check back with me on that in a few months.
EDITORS NOTE: For more information and thought leadership on Circularity, we recommend the UK-based, Ellen MacArthur Foundation in partnership with IDEO. Also. C2C (cradle to cradle products innovation institute, certification for materials). On de-carbonizing in California, there is the Building Decarbonization Coalition. And on understanding your building’s embodied carbon performance, check out Tangible Materials.
GFDA
What are some of the ways a design firm or product brand could benefit from hiring someone with your expertise?
CHRIS
It’s going to be explaining to you the what and the why per material decision, but also helping modify design concepts that lack healthy, viable material options. There are no equal substitutions for all the not-so-great materials out there. That road doesn’t exist right now; it’s not where we are. Sometimes layouts might need examining, and working with engineers and fabricators might have to change.
I can show designers how material health will help them develop a better design flow. It goes beyond choosing A versus B. Imagine creating an entire team that knows how to design around a healthier ethos! Developing a firm-wide system is much more
efficient long-term than attacking the problem spec by spec. That’s where I, and others like me, can help.
For more information on healthier materials, the GFDA recommends the Healthy Materials Lab at Parsons School of Design.
Written by: Maha Mamish | GFDA Member and Contributor. Mamish is a growth strategist, educator, and promoter for creative brands embracing excellence, innovation, and sustainable frameworks. A graduate from Sotheby’s London in European Decorative Arts & Design, she launched her career in NYC specializing in sales and strategic business development for best-in-class luxury design brands over the last 20 years, and now focuses on helping entrepreneurs expand cutting-edge ideas rooted in circular-thinking.
Next up in this series, we’ll be examining how to leverage your concerns and efforts around waste & sustainability to your firm’s advantage, in order to become sought after and celebrated as an advocate for change with existing and prospective clients.
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